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Interview with The Alchemist - Part One
MARTY( Interviewer): What's good?
ALCHEMIST: Everything's good, man. Just enjoying life, you know?
M: You are mainly a producer, but you rap on some tracks as well. If you had to put yourself in a category, what would it be? Producer? Rapper? All-around artist?
A: I would put myself in the all-around artist category, you know what I mean? Pick up a paintbrush, pick up a pen, pick up a fuckin...you know what I mean? Whatever, you know what I'm saying? Whatever it takes to create. So you know, its an extension into different categories. More or less, I make my name on the beat level, you know what I mean, but I've been rapping since before I was making beats so its just an extension of creativity, you know what I mean?
M: How long do you see yourself producing? Forever?
A: It'll grow. I'm sure it'll grow. I'm still, like to me I feel like I'm still young so I know it'll develop into something more, like I went from rapping to making beats, it'll grow. I look at people like Rick Rubin and shit, who are just super-creative and they grow, you know what I mean? I'm sure this shit will grow into something, I'm just letting it take its natural progression, you know?
QUIS: When you first came out, when you were building a name for yourself, you were doing tracks with Dilated [Peoples}, Third Degree, Confidence, know what I'm saying? Buc Fifty, them type of cats, and Casual. You took it over to the Mobb sound after that, and killed it. Was it a big transition from west to east?
A: Nah, I don't think so. I think like I said its just kind of like a progression, you know. Musically, the people you're around influence you, know what I mean? So it was like I started being around Mobb Deep a lot, for it to be more than just one record, know what I mean? If it had been just one record and move on it might have been just the outcome of the music industry, but we ended up hooking up, actually it was Muggs [of Cypress Hill] who connected me with them, Muggs was working with them on god bless the dead named Bigga B, he was around, a big force on the west coast he was working with Muggs at the time, and you know made different connections through Muggs, started doing stuff with Mobb. Once I moved to New York, it just kinda snowballed into that, so while I was doing the Dilated, the High and Mighty, and the Buc Fifty, I was building my relationships up, you know what I mean, and the Mobb thing was kinda slow, it was like it started with me just bringing beat CDs and then they started seeing out, cause I was in New York kinda by myself representing Soul Assasins, I was the only dude out here, you know, everybody else, Muggs, everybody, was on the west coast, so like me being out here by myself, they just peeped that and it was like, kept being around them more and more and I just started grinding out more, just doing more shit, and it eventually, you know, it developed more than just a beatmaking thing, and thats when the best music comes out.
M: What kind of relationship do you have with Havoc?
A: [Points to MPC 3000] That's his MP right there, so that pretty much tell you, you know what I mean? We keep it tight man, I'm one of his motivational forces, and hes definetley one of my motivational forces, I just gotta hear the shit hes working on, you know what I mean? He's sick...unspoken beat genius, you know what I'm saying? I feel like he's more natual, like he don't gotta think too hard when he makes beats, he kinda just goes off, know what I mean, like me I use more thought, I be trying to figure out sometimes..you know what I mean? He's just so natural he's just in it man, I'll be having to work harder to get to that level I feel, you know what I mean? So me and his relationship is just like that you know, we click, he plays me shit I play shit for him, give each other opinions, ideas, you know, and I'm one of the few people I know that, even in their camp, where I can just bring beats to him and he'll just pick up a pen and start scripting and it won't be nothing, you know, it won't be like I have to call the manager or nothing, thats the good relationship we have, and also on a level where you know sometimes they [Mobb Deep] get mad when I give beats to other people, you know what I mean? So its like anytime I'm playing them new beats, their quick to pick up a pen and try to lock that beat down, you know what I mean?
Q: When you make beats, do you have separate batches for different artist, or do you just make them...
A: Definitely, I mean I'll plan certain ones for different people but they don't always end up that way, know what I'm saying, but I'll definitely be like, structure a beat CD like "I'm gonna put this one first, this second, I hope they like this." Those end up being the ones people pick sometimes, you never know.
Q: Most cats when they do beats, they have joints on the album and all that, but your beats nowadays are really starting to take off like Saigon's "Stalking Cap," "Book of Rhymes" (Nas), "Tick Tock," your songs are starting to stand out, like the Big Daddy Kane song ("The Man the Icon" 12"). What happened to that album [Big Daddy Kane's album]?
A: Never happened man. It was a situation with Landspeed, where there's a defunct label, some bullshit. You know, me and Kane we were clicking, that's my man, I look up to him incredibly, you know what I mean, just like what he did. He lives in North Carolina, I'm over here, we were just working on different stuff. We did a couple records and shit but nothing that was...you need to keep working...it was some big shoes to fill if I'm gonna do a whole Big Daddy Kane album you know what I mean, so we just ended up not doing it for one reason or another. But, he's still my man, know what I mean, we'll probably still do some shit in the future.
Q: Like as far as production aspects, when you cats like Kanye...my thing is like, as far as your digging process...the samples are more up-close now, a lot of cats know the records their using. But cats like Preme [DJ Premier], Pete [Rock], you, Diamond, stay digging, you know what I'm saying? Joints like Kanye uses the soul sample, its like when you do it, on the 'Stalking Cap' joint, the vocal samples, like the joint you did on the State Property 2 album, 'Still In Effect'..
A: Oh yeah..
Q: It's crazy.
A: That was a Freeway song for his album that they turned into that. That was supposed to be on his solo album.
Q: Yeah. As far as digging, do you still go at it hard?
A: Hell yeah, hell yeah. Stay digging, everyday. There's always an idea or a thought...I gone shopping so much over the years that I could just go through my closet too, just dig through my shit cause I stay buying, so it's like you could never really know a record from top to bottom, there's always something new on a record, you know? Go back through, find shit, I'm buying CDs these days, like 'Stalking Cap' I found that on a CD. That wasn't even on a vinyl. It doesn't exist on a vinyl, certain records you can't even find until they just reissue it on CD. It's still an element of digging, you know what I mean? I think that...if your not getting your fingers dirty physically, it don't mean your not digging, you know what I mean? Like people today, I've been hearing a lot of people saying "What do you think about this new shit where kids can just download an old sample, they can get a virtual drum machine and they just make the beat and they download and this and that and you have a whole beat and so on." I say, if it sounds good, its good. If they're still doing their homework, they still finding out about songs and they're finding out through the internet, whatever your formula is to find out as long as your doing your history, your finding shit out, cause it always [revolves around digging], the more your knowledgeable about stuff. It also goes along with when your producing, like lets say your like trying to come up with a vocal sample for a chorus or you wanna scratch something- you gotta have a knowledge of all those old rap songs. Like, "Oh yeah I'll take that line from KRS.." You know like say the name of a song is something, you can go in the Rolodex in your head and go "yeah so-and-so said that line or that word in a rhyme in '89 in a song," you know? Just to have that knowledge, is part of production too as well, or like say you want to find a sound...all that shit goes along with digging, you know? Young cats today, these new kids doing mixtapes and stuff..an older dude will be having more creative shit because they have the knowledge of all the stuff that they play with, you know what I mean?
M: In terms of soul sampling, you hear a lot about Kanye West and Just Blaze, bringing the soul sampling back. But I feel like you've been a big part of that as well. Do you feel like you've gotten credit for that, or does it mean anything to you to get credit for that?
A: It's cool that you bring that up too because people who know me amongst the circle, we all know that shit, you know what I mean? It's just something we don't really blow up too much cause I don't wanna sound like the obvious..But if you really wanna trace it back man, I got that shit from Muggs. Muggs was the original Stacks-sampling, he used to sample from those Memphis records, he was big on that Memphis soul, like down south soul, know what I mean, but it was more funky. They reach into other categories of soul..I mean Muggs did it, RZA did it, obviously Just and Kanye took it to a whole other level, you know, cause they were working with artists like Jay and stuff that was just heard by the masses, you feel me? That's why I feel like the Blueprint album [Jay-Z] was a good turning point, and after that, every label and every A&R will tell you that a million beat CDs from kids with all these vocal samples and shit, like it was just following a trend. But if you really do the math, you could listen to the H.N.I.C. album [Prodigy of Mobb Deep], when I did that shit on that song with Pee and his girl, it was called "Trials of Love," and that was a Lou Bond (?) record that I used, and then at the end of the song, the whole song plays out, with the singing, and its like we been doing that. Me and Pee always laugh about that like, we been doing this shit, its all good. Also, not for nothing, when the Blueprint album was going down.You know my man is an A&R at Roc-A-Fella, Hip Hop. [He's] been over there forever, now hes much bigger than that. In the beginning he was doing A&R and...I was around when they were doing Blueprint 1, I was coming by Baseline [Roc-A-Fella Studios], bringing beat CDs. I knew what they were up to, I heard a couple of the songs, I saw where they were going, I was like "oh perfect." Right up my alley. I had that shit for em, and I was coming through there playing beats, and..you know....now I realize what was happening, you know what I'm saying? Cause there was one particular incident when Kanye was there..Kanye West is my man, I love him and I'm just proud of the shit he's done and how he just went with his game, you know? But I mean, he knows what time it is, you know without me going and breaking it all down cause...None of my beats were making the Blueprint 1 album, and then when the album came out I'm like...there was a lot of shit that sounded like..it wasn't straight up the same sample, it was just the influence, it was the same sound I had. I had that sound at that time, you know what I'm saying? And the fact that I wasn't getting on that album I realized down the line, they were managing Kanye at the time, you know what I'm saying? So they was having me bring beats through and it was like, "Yea we like #2, we like #5, put it on CD," and I would leave, and they was playing em for him [claps for emphasis] and whoever else they were managing, Just [Blaze] like..."This is what you gotta top out. You don't want us to give this to Jay do you?" Like they weren't making money off of Alchemist, so it was like, these dudes they were managing..it was pretty much the same similar sound, they knew he [Kanye] could make beats of that status, you know what I'm saying? So they was kind of like, using me as fuel for his fire, which was smart, know what I'm saying? I didn't realize it at the time, I probably wouldn't even have been leaving beat CDs over there, you know? I got good by listening to Premo..like everybody got good by trying to analyze somebody, so if he was analyzing me to a little bit at that point, that's cool. I know for a fact without getting into details cause me and him spoke before and it was like even one time when I was over there and he was asking me questions and it was like..I didn't see what was going on but homeboy was...smart and had his plans together..he knew on the low. And I just didn't see it. But now I realize alright look, there's just certain things you have to be conscious of when you go around and do beats, and I never thought I could be that size of an artist or even be that much. I never considered myself like that, like someone would take my shit and analyze it, you know what I mean? And that's really what was going on to a degree, you know what I'm saying? That's why now when I look back on it, its all good cause we're all here doing our thing. When my album comes out, people are gonna hear it and its gonna be obvious like..."are you influenced by Kanye"...people who don't know, the masses may not know but people in the game know. That's why I don't trip on it and that's why...you know the fact that I'm rhyming on some of my stuff...now the fact that he blew makes it more like "oh you doing this because of him?" And its gonna be clear when I come and do what I do that its two different artists, with much respect for each other and influence on each other, but its like on two different planes, you know what I'm saying? Plus I've been [rhyming] since I was 15, like I had a video and all that when I was 15 and was like birthed into the game as a rapper. It's just a progression that I've been through, so when I do come out and do what I do, its not gonna be a shock cause I'm gonna give people the history, you know what I'm saying? So they'll be like "I seen where he came from and where he's at now." But as far as the soul sampling thing goes, I don't trip off of it, and people who know [rap] know, and I continue to do the type of shit I do, and when they hear how I do it and the way that I do it, they can tell that its in my own format, know what I'm saying? But it doesn't steer me away from using it, like the fact that they blew it up so much its like "oh I can't make beats like that anymore." I don't feel that way, cause I do my shit in my own way, where I feel like you can tell me or his beat, pretty much in the drums, just to get real technical..but I think it will be clear at the end of the day.
Q: To me, you have a lot of big songs under your belt. You done some songs like "The Realest" [Mobb Deep and Kool G Rap]. just independent classics. I remember the joint that was early, Severe and O.C. "Words Can Kill"..
A: Oh yeah...
Q: It was crazy, just a lot of songs like.."Keep It Thoro" [Prodigy] which I consider a classic. When you bang out those joints, do you know like 'This is it? This is gonna be a classic?"
A: Nah...
Q: Even the Jadakiss record "We Gonna Make It." You play it in the club..it was a big record.
A: Yeah...I never know when I'm doing shit. I never know when I'm doing shit. I'll try, you know, to have that feeling but its never a guarantee. I never feel like when I'm done with a song that I'm sure it's gonna work. You still need to get that approval from the world, you know. I got my personal favorites, you know. Like I got beats that I still ain't give nobody yet that I probably have had for a year already that I got faith in em like, 'this is gonna be some shit.' I probably be holding it and not showing certain people cause I didn't wanna like 'nah I gotta do some shit.' And then one day it'll come out and probably will be you know like 'I had that beat for a year.' It happens like that a lot, you know what I mean? Cause I got certain faith in certain beats. But in other occasions I had beats that I had faith in, gave em to the wrong people and it got wasted, and then I'm like 'alright fuck that. Instead of taking that shit in I'm gonna keep it for something special.' And then I'll just keep it on the low until then. A good beat stands the test of time anyway, its not like 'oh its good right now I gotta put it out right now.' That's just a fuckin' flavor of the month beat anyway.
Q: Now with ALC the record label, are you basically like touching out to artists or...
A: Nah, just working with what's around right now trying to get my own self as an artist off the ground first, before I try to tackle the label thing. It's just an opportunity to put shit out without going through all the industry bullshit, whoever is around, not locked into a deal, just feel out a project.
M: Being around Mobb Deep and seeing their situation with Loud [Records], then Landspeed for one album and now Jive, has that colored your impression of what you want to do with your record company? Are you trying to use this as a springboard to maybe get on a major eventually or stay independent?
A: Yeah. I got a company of people around me, a good team of people on that side of things so I just try to stay the producer. I'll bring my two cents when we all come to the table, but on that side of things, I leave things to the team, to build, to enterprise on that side of things and I build the music, the product. It's like a factory, you gotta have people running the factory and you gotta have people on the assembly line. I look at myself..I'm making the shit, so I concern myself totally with making the project, and on the label side of things once the decisions come to the table, I'll give my two cents. But as far as making the whole thing, my mind is still on the music. Little by little I get more into the entrepreneurship every year, you know?
Q: How many records do you got...I know for a fact you got some work with Dilated.
A: Yeah.
Q: "Poisonous"...
A: Oh yeah, yeah.
Q: As far as that joint coming out...like I thought "Marathon" was going to be the single [from Dilated Peoples' new album Neighborhood Watch].
A: Nah, that was never planned to be a single. I don't know if everyone was...using me to be their vehicle..you know spend all their money on this (points to himself). They don't spend the money on me. I feel like I'm true but to the industry I'm still tried and tested and not true yet, you know what I mean? Like I got this degree of proving I still gotta do. And see I gotta make sure I'm not rubbing it in their fucking face after I do it either, cause that just rubs people the wrong way, know what I mean? But I know its gonna be like that, I just gotta..hold my lip when it happens and not be like 'see I told you motherfuckers!' You know, throw shit in people's faces and be like this sour motherfucker, that's just how its gotta be. Even with me being down with Mobb Deep, sometimes I feel their like unsung heroes sometimes, they don't get the shine..It's like- its called 'infamous.' Infamous means famous for being hated, you know what I mean? So there is a degree of power against me and Mobb Deep and anybody that's trying to do what we do, just how it is in life. And then you always have your time to shine though, so its like just the point in the game where I'm at right now it's like that. And people know I'm quiet as kept, and when the opportunity comes for me to be on that stage and make my contribution to do it that big, I'm gonna do it, I'm just not gonna throw it in people's face. Hopefully, I won't be sour at that point, cause everybody has to struggle to get to where they're going and its like at this point I still see that. All the shit I've done and everything its still like labels are followers, they still don't have faith in the artists and their strength and they'll be....know what I'm saying? And its like....it will always constantly be like that and that's why I'm like, when I'm able to work with other artists and shit, you're at the mercy of them, and their management and their label and people who really don't know music. So..it's fucking tough man.
Q: You're very close to Evidence and Confidence right?
A: Definitely.
Q: You lived in the same area together or...
A: We all grew up together knowing each other, went to school together...we all clicked back in the day...we all did shit together, making beats. We all came up underneath Muggs you know, we were always looking up to those people...that's just where it all came from, know what I mean? West Coast..but it was like a different group of west coast producers. Now you got Khalil, Evidence got some shit...a lot of people from the west got some shit. I came from that same school, I just moved to New York.
Q: Do you still get a lot of work out there also?
A: Depends, you know. Hooking up with Snoop and shit that was a good..chapter. I don't think they was even tripping on me like I was from the west, they was like 'Mobb Deep, Alchemist,' know what I mean? They didn't even make the Muggs, Soul Assassins connection..Ras Kass...they was all like I was from New York. I didn't really make my name when I was on the west when I was doing beats...even when I did "Worst Comes to Worst" for Dilated and that was a good record in New York and LA, the Alchemist thing was like 'oh that's Mobb Deep'...Lot of people, even Kurupt, everybody, they thought I was from New York and all that. They didn't know I was Soul Assassins. Cause this is the first time I actually got to do something for Cypress, before that it was like doing work in all these other places, you know what I mean?
Q: You were saying you wanted to get more singles, like the Sheek joint, the "Turn It Up" song..
A: Yeah. Almost. There's all these almost...You can't control that, so if you're your own artist, do your own records, you can control that cause it's your own shit. But just selling beats to everybody ain't no control, unless I make my name like...I'm just not chasing something. I'm only in a race with myself as an artist, I'm not in a race with anyone else in the industry. It's me vs. myself...So, you know, anything can happen. Can't control that. Like I did this record for Pharoah [Monch] that's fucking crazy man. And if they put it out right now, whoever puts it out is gonna pop, it's a single, not an album cut. You can hear it the way that shit be. But for whatever reason, labels, this and that, I can't control that. Maybe that shit will come out and blow and make, you know...or another record I did somebody might come out and blow and set me up, but...I can't wait on that. As an artist I can't put pressure on these labels like 'You gotta put my shit out so I can put my album out in three months...', know what I'm saying? You gotta just keep learning and hope that shit just turns that way.
Q: The thing that kills me is like, a lot of cats be like 'I gotta get this, I gotta have a bigger sound.' But you're still using the ASR-10, what you started off doing.
A: Yeah..I mean...Pro Tools and shit enables you to do a lot, and if you have a good engineer who just knows how to make big sounding records, they can make anything sound good. You gotta remember when Wu Tang was out, putting out grimy shit and those were hit records, you know what I'm saying? Cypress, those beats weren't all like shiny, R&B-sounding records but those were fucking hit records though man. You can't forget what rap is, know what I'm saying? I just think Dre changed it up when he came out with that Chronic 2001 shit man, like...He came from an R&B production world, if you analyze Dre, he came from and R&B world, everything was shiny. Rap came against the grain during that time, it was like gutter. And he did that gutter sound for a while, for the first N.W.A. shit and all that. Then when the Chronic 2001, the second album, not the first Chronic the second one came, it was all replayed shit, it all came from samples but it was all replayed and big sounding. He brought that like that big R&B sound back to rap, and every engineer I go to now, in every big mix, they make your shit bright and big. So its like just a combination of the two. I like that, its just a matter of taking the gritty shit and making it a little bright for today but not R&B-ing the shit out. Cause there's gotta be a separation at some point.
Stay tuned for Part Two to hear Al on Mobb Deep's new LP, some recent collaborations, and his solo album 1st Infantry. Coming soon...
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